re_alignment_logs | Because comparative science is... fun..?

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Because comparative science is... fun..?

WHO: Jetfire and Skyfire
WHERE: Jetfire's lab on one of the terraces surrounding Liege's temple.
WHEN: Around now.
WHAT: Sharing history - and the differences.
WARNINGS: None.

It had hardly been a pressing priority to have this comparative talk, but it'd still been something Jetfire had looked forward to - mostly anyway, given some of the possible subjects that'd come up. The chance to get to have a comprehensive comparison of two similar-but-different angles in two different realities.

Themselves, that was.

"We know a few things already, since it's quite impossible to not pick these things up..." Trailing off, Jetfire smiled slightly, and sat down, still somewhat surprised he'd managed to find seating large enough to hold him comfortably... and Skyfire as well, in this case.

"The two immediate crossing vectors being at least some time frozen on Earth, and Starscream." The latter one didn't surprise him at all. Then he frowned slightly, resting his curled hand against his chin in thought. "You were in the ice a lot longer than I was, however. I was... er, involved in the war nearly from the beginning." Pausing, he spread his hands and looked to Skyfire.

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"Precisely, though one could hope not." He shook his head and put that aside. If Skyfire would wish him to go through that whole thing more in detail at some point, he would certainly oblige, but while it was important and part of it felt not exactly on-topic.

Instead, he considered again the similarities of their being brought back online... ah. He hadn't actually told Skyfire of that, had he? There was also the brief thought that despite the curiosity of their different designations, it made things somewhat simpler actually.

"How were you found, Skyfire? You mention Starscream finding you..." briefly trailing off, Jetfire smiled dryly. "Which, since I doubt Soundwave or Thundercracker and Skywarp would have bothered, is the same for me. It seems safe to assume so anyway, even if when the CR chamber released me I was already on the Nemesis, so by then I'd obviously been removed from where the avalanche that surprised me buried me, which I believe was somewhere in modern Alaska."

Frowning, Jetfire considered the whole disorienting moment of waking up, checking the CR chamber...

"... I have no idea how long it would have taken the CR chamber to melt the ice and repair the damage done, and I haven't asked Starscream yet, but given that he seems to have waited with the last stages until he needed me, I'm not sure I want to ask." Not so much bitterness, as tired exasperation of fulfilled expectations.

At least he had been let out, right?

Edited 2013-04-06 01:35 (UTC)

"I see. That's... somewhat different from my experience," he replied.

He had noticed Jetfire's tone, so he didn't press the issue at the moment. It wasn't that he didn't find the story, well, upsetting. But his alternate seemed to take it in stride. Besides... Skyfire couldn't help but wonder if it would have been so different, had Starscream found him alone instead of with a whole excavating team. Then he decided he didn't want to know, either.

"The Decepticons were digging for energy sources in the North Pole when they found me," he went on instead. "I don't know if Starscream was the one who first discovered me, but he was definitely there in the group. They brought me back online immediately. And then they, ah, 'explained' the situation."

He couldn't hold back a grimace.

"It seems reasonable to assume that Megatron only agreed to spend time and energy on me because I looked like I might be an useful soldier."

Explain, yes, clearly. Jetfire's arched expression said all what he thought of that, as the air quotes had indeed been more or less audible in Skyfire's voice.

"Yes, I don't doubt that was the reason, and technically an understandable one." Jetfire's glance, from himself and then to Skyfire, and their frames ought to be telling enough. They were quite tall and well-armoured, if just by altmode circumstance.

"I'd assume that'd be the only reason I'd have been repaired as well if Megatron had been present, if I hadn't just been killed outright given the past, but Starscream had no one to answer to but himself when I was found. Apparently he was presently in charge of the group of Decepticons on Earth by then." Because if things had been normal, Jetfire sincerely doubted they'd have let loose a decided faction-switcher unless Starscream thought he could be... convinced.

"Did you stay for any length of time after being brought out, or..?" Jetfire asked, curious. Skyfire had implied it wasn't long before he switched, but that didn't necessarily mean much, and Jetfire wouldn't find it strange if Skyfire would have been convinced to stay for a while.

The whole thing with waking up right into a war and the only recognisable face being with the mechs who were present when you woke up, well...

Skyfire couldn't hold back a small - and perhaps a bit bitter - smile. Everything had happened very fast, for him. Since then, he'd had time to put it into perspective, but it still felt almost unreal. As if this was the part that had happened long ago, instead of his old life of studying and exploring.

"I made a very bad Decepticon. I didn't last a day," he replied, with the slightest touch of humor. "They were almost in the middle of battle, when I woke. I saw the Decepticons at their worst from the very beginning. Even... no, especially Starscream."

That had been the most unsettling of all. The way Skyfire saw it, there were two possibilities: either time and war had changed Starscream into someone almost unrecognizable, or the potential for him to become like this had always been there and Skyfire simply hadn't seen it. He wasn't sure of which option was more frightening.

He shook his head, as if trying to get rid of the thought.

"They didn't have time to try to talk me into anything," he went on. "And after threating innocent lifeforms for no particular reason, well, it was a bit too late for that."

It was hard not to chuckle at the comment over how long Skyfire lasted as a Decepticon, and Jetfire shook his helm, smoothing out the brief smile as he listened.

"At least you saw the core of the matter quickly, which hopefully made the switch easier, if only because there was no time to start making excuses for what was happening." He knows exactly what he's talking about, by the way. Leaning forward to rest elbows on the table and his chin on his interlaced fingers, Jetfire's optics dimmed slightly.

"And while there's undoubtedly differences, there seems to be enough parallels at least between us, that I could hazard some comparison for Starscream, if it might help."

Angling his helm slightly, Jetfire aimed his gaze at the opposite wall as he paused briefly, not so much out of hesitation as gathering his thoughts.

"I saw the changes to Starscream firsthand, and while he was always... sharp and hardly the easiest to get along with or indeed get the chance to know, before the gladiator games, before the beginning of the war, he wouldn't have killed to get what he wanted." Or any number of other atrocities done. Jetfire's gaze wandered back to Skyfire.

"Not to say there wasn't other things he did, but he wasn't a murderer. Megatron's methods of forging his army, and especially his first and closest... seemed to have loosened something, is what I can say, looking back on it. Not that that excuses anything." He huffed, and briefly, the frustration is nearly tangible before Jetfire shrugged, wings flicking, as he leaned back in his seat again.

"What happened after that battle?" It's hard not to be curious about the way Skyfire joined the Autobots, given that it's obviously a recent thing, and what he's already said.

It did help, in a way. Even though it wasn't something Skyfire liked to hear, knowing there was some common ground made him... not feel better, exactly, but understand better. What Jetfire was telling him about his own version of Starscream sounded familiar enough.

"I can see something similar happening in our world," he admitted, with a slight nod. "I wasn't around to see what Megatron's influence on him was like, but even back in the Academy, Starscream wasn't exactly, ah, sociable. And he's always been ambitious. I just couldn't imagine how far he could go."

The next part was something he wanted to think about even less, but that was a good reason to get it over with. Skyfire frowned and spent a few seconds considering his words.

"We managed to stop the Decepticons, but I crashed again. They... didn't dig me out right away." He wanted to believe they couldn't. But he didn't know for sure, and it felt dishonest to make guesses. "It was only a few days until Wheeljack and Sideswipe came to look for me, though. And I've been staying with the Autobots since then."

"He is, isn't he?" Jetfire said with a shake of his helm, because that was certainly what he was used to as well. And it was, in a way, somehow a little reassuring to see this mirrored somewhat as well. "It requires a particular type of stubborn persistence and probably at least a little lack of... ah, self preseverance to get close to Starscream." Jetfire's smile was dry as he said it. Because liking the Seeker or not, despite everything, didn't mean he wasn't aware of Starscream's... faults.

Skyfire's revelation about what'd happened next, however, had Jetfire staring quietly for a moment, slowly shaking his helm.

"They... what?" He frowned, straightening up a little. "I suppose there were circumstances..." Jetfire's focus returned to Skyfire, because there was no reason to dwell on that; he didn't know the situation and hadn't been there, so it was easier to put it aside for now, despite the questions. "And that's where we are now."

A question didn't seem necessary in this case.

It was true, and Skyfire knew it. He couldn't hold back a chuckle, in spite of the situation.

"Being Starscream's friend means getting in trouble, yes," he agreed. Or at the very least, getting him out of the trouble he made for himself. The end results, however, were quite similar. "Even back before the war started."

As for the rest... well. Skyfire certainly hoped there was a good reason for what had happened. To be quite honest, he hadn't wanted to ask for details. He was happy, with the Autobots - as much as someone in his situation could be. They were his friends. That was all he needed to know.

"Indeed. And... I don't have much more to say, really," he said. "I had only spent a few months in the Ark before I arrived here."

Nothing wrong with taking your amusements where they could be gotten, really. Jetfire smiles as well and lets the moment be as untainted as it can by all the other factors.

"Perhaps especially before the war, given that he did not take to violence to solve his problems back then." Jetfire's rather sure, however, that he probably never saw the worst of it, for whatever counted as "worst" back then.

The things Starscream worked really hard on succeeding at or attaining because they were... delicate.

"Getting used to the situation, then?" There's a bigger difference here compared to when he defected, because hopefully Skyfire has had to deal more with trying to get used to the lost time than any... suspicion. "And if there's something you can think of or would like to ask..." He shrugs, open to suggestion.

"That's a good point. He used far more... ah. Imagination, you could say."

He grinned again, amused. No matter what had come later, Skyfire still had plenty of good memories of those times. He saw no reason to push them back or pretend he hadn't been happy back then. Especially when the main reason why his present wan't entirely unhappy was that he made a conscious effort to keep it that way.

"I've mostly been trying to get used to it, yes," he replied to Jetfire's other question. "Keeping myself busy also helped. It's been a very hands-on approach so far."

Skyfire paused for a moment, and then finally voiced the question that had been bothering for a while, now. He was aware that he might not like the answer - but he had to know.

"You said your Cybertron went into a natural shut-down," he mused. "Is it... Do you know if it's salvageable at all? Or has it been mostly abandoned like ours?"

Because that seemed to be a general pattern, too. A quite depressing one at that.

"I think that's a suitable word for it, yes." Smiling, amused as well, Jetfire glanced away briefly. "I admit, sometimes it was... interesting... to see what he came up with." Because well, admittedly there were reasons he'd found Starscream interesting to stubbornly stay with until that hadn't been an issue any longer.

Jetfire nodded at the confirmation, and decided it might be simpler not to ask further about it; it'd have a lot to do with trying to get used to waking up in a completely new situation and while that was... interesting, it was certainly unsettling and personal as well.

"It seems to have been called the 'Great Shut-Down' by now," said Jetfire with a dry smile, turning to that question, which could have been yet another depressing topic, but luckily wasn't. "And while no one knew it at the time, it was a natural process of renewal."

He'd left before that, and in a way, Jetfire supposed, he was both lucky, and... ah, unlucky, he had, given what it had led to.

"I got a brief update from Bumblebee about the situation on Cybertron while we were dealing with Sunstorm, and while the planet had completely shut down and taken anyone on-planet with it as well, it started up again later, and is now, apparently, back to pre-war levels of energon."

With Shockwave taking control until recently, but they weren't talking about that, even if he'd had gotten more than one audial full of it from Starscream.

Skyfire nodded, thoughtful. He couldn't know exactly how well the details matched up, or not, with what had happened in his own world. But the basics were very clear.

"I see," he mused after a moment. "It's good to hear that, at least in some worlds, Cybertron still has a chance to live."

That had been the worst part of all, for him. His own personal life was bad enough, but the loss of his entire planet - that had been overwhelming. And yet, hearing this now, he couldn't help but smile just a little.

"I wonder if there is hope for own Cybertron, too."

Jetfire knew the feeling well, since when he left, it'd seemed it was all going towards an inevitable and unforgiving end, with the suns not providing enough energy for conversion.

At least, not for an entire planet, and two factions in war, even if the population as a whole was less.

"I was certainly revlieved when I was told," agreeing with a shake of his helm, Jetfire's expression is very sober for a moment. "It was... utsettling to see the slow descent, though I wasn't present for the last of it. I, Omega, Countdown and Groundshaker were attempting to stop Decepticon spread to other systems, in addition to finding the Ark and Prime. They had left earlier to find energon."

The grim expression lightening a little, Jetfire hummed quietly, his field flexing briefly around him.

"I don't see why not. Given that it was a natural and not manual shutdown, it would imply it's a mechanism that could exist in other realities. And even if it doesn't... does your Cybertron have the ability to move freely? Moving it to a strong star and converting the energy could help."

"It must have been hard," Skyfire said, his tone pensive. "When I last left Cybertron before... everything, something like that wasn't even a possibility to be considered. We still had enough resources to spend on off-planet travels simply for basic research, after all."

It was yet another proof of just how much things had changed since then. This was exactly the kind of situation that reminded him of how long it had been since his time.

He grimaced a bit at the other question.

"It can move, yes. Megatron had a similar idea." He paused for a moment, and sighed. "Of course, he intended to use Earth's sun instead. That wasn't an option."

"Depressing, if nothing else, but the war took up most attention and resources... and yes, before the war, energon was not a problem." A thought occured to him and Jetfire frowned before continuing. "I wonder, though, since the Great Shutdown was a natural function, if an energon crisis would have become an issue regardless of the war..."

And that was a rather unsettling thought. If Megatron hadn't become dissatisfied with the situation as it was, and how it wasn't suitable for his own intentions, perhaps a war would have started over lack of energon, if the Great Shutdown would have happened automatically...

Tilting his helm at the comment about using the Earth's sun, Jetfire folded his arms over his chestplates and leaned back in his seat.

"Hm, well. I surmise it ought to be possible to move Cybertron into Earth's solar system to take advantage of the sun without any great disruptions, but I suppose that wasn't Megatron's intention?" He shook his helm, a bit incredulous.

"And either way, there are a lot of other suns available with a greater energy output and thus, technically, more effective." It seemed a bit silly to choose a very average sun like Earth's, when there were a lot of hot, young suns to choose from.

"It's entirely possible," he mused. "Especially considering that it seems to be a constant between several different versions of Cybertron."

Well. Talk about depressing. Skyfire tilted his head, thoughtful for a moment, and then moved on to the parts that he could answer.

"It would be far more reasonable to move the planet towards a sun of that kind, yes. But the Megatron in our world has never been particularly reasonable. I suspect that causing trouble for Optimus Prime was just as important to him as getting Cybertron a new sun," he said. "I don't doubt that Megatron is serious in his goal of finding new energy sources. But, even without taking ethical issues into account, his methods aren't the most... efficient."

It was a bit depressing, wasn't it. All those possible realities, and so far all of them pointed to some sort of total or partial decline or even unhabitability.

"... Flat-out unstable, or more... ah, obssessed with his 'personal' enemy?" asked Jetfire, leaning forward in his curiosity.

Sure, Skyfire only had a few months of observation to draw from, but compared to any other Autobots or Decepticons from there, it was a few months fresh from thousands of vorns of familiarity and routine.

"I do know the Megatron from my reality ended up quite... focused... on Optimus."

Skyfire considered it for a moment. Megatron was certainly the kind of bot that made an impression, even in a short time. But he had never stopped to think about this particular issue.

"I think there might be a little of both," he said at last. "It's true that he tends to, ah, pay more attention to Optimus, even when it isn't necessarily the best strategy. But a lot of his plans aren't necessarily the best strategy to begin with. On the other hand... he's not above cooperating with Optimus when the situation is dangerous enough, either."

And, of course, by 'situation' he meant 'Starscream'.

"Interesting... there might be some differences there, besides the fact that by necessity, if Optimus and Megatron are on the battlefield, they'll of course be drawn together."

By matching power-levels and to spare someone else the necessity of having to go up against either of them.

"But, well..." Resting his elbows on the table and lacing his hands together, Jetfire frowned thoughtfully. "While, as noted, Megatron was quite focused on Optimus, his plans were usually more or less strategically sound."

Even if that sounded strange.

He nodded at that. It was sobering, in a way; the idea of someone like the Megatron he knew but more efficient wasn't particularly pleasant. They had enough trouble back in his own world as it was.

"I see," he mused, still thoughtful. "I don't mean to imply that our own Megatron is easy to deal with, but he tends to be... stubborn. He might stick to a plan that isn't working just so he won't have to admit he's wrong."

Especially as, with the confirmation of an existant multiverse there could, would be version of Megatron worse than that what Jetfire was used to.

More ruthless, more effcient... He shook his helm to shake away that thought.

"I'm quite sure each and every alternate of Megatron is, fitting into his own universe, a force to be reckoned with. And that stubbornness... would mean that as soon as your version hits upon a single plan that works, that could easily be the end." He'd hope they would never have that happen; as of yet, the closest for Jetfire and his reality would be the when Megatron came back with the Aerospace Extermination Squadron... that had been an unpleasant time.

"In spite of everything, our worlds have been relatively lucky," Skyfire agreed. "The fact that we still have a chance to fight is something that we should make the most of. At least while we still have that advantage."

Even as someone who wished there was no need for a war at all, he could still realize how important it was to stop Megatron before it was much too late.

"Relatively speaking, anyway... there's undoubtedly other realities where things might be worse." Smiling dryly, Jetfire nontheless nodded. "But you're right, indeed we do, even if it's sometimes been... close."

If the war hadn't happened at all, Jetfire would have been more the pleased, and it'd taken him a really long time to even get remotely used or willing to use weapons, but... in the end it had been necessary to integrate that skill and knowledge.

"Well, that was... infornative, if rather depressing," Jetfire said with a shake of his helm and another small smile before he nodded back to where the equipment and work benches were.

"I happen to have a few samples from the planet I ended up on accidentally before, if you'd be interested. I've mostly concerned myself with the ore samples I picked up in the same systems and here on Cybertron."

'Informative and depressing' is exactly how Skyfire would have described it, yes. After a conversation like this one, he would have been glad for a change of subject no matter what it was about. But this particular one was something he found genuinely interesting, too.

"Oh, I would love to see those," he replied, and that was all it took to get him smiling again. "You really don't mind?"

Standing up, Jetfire chuckled as he went to take the tucked-away samples out.

"No, I don't. I picked them up in the interest of an attempt at being thorough since the majority of my space were taken up by a plant the organics would be able to consume." He put the chilled box down and shrugged.

"I haven't had the time to look them over... the ore and metals I've found have held my interest more firmly." And he'd frankly been somewhat unable to get enthusiastic over the plants, especially after the rather choked stay on the jungle planet where they came from.

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